Home

About Us

Match Reports

Archive

Meet the Authors

Contact Us

Links

Description Description

The Debate: UEFA Playoff Seeding

Posted by Biggy and Chamo on November 12, 2009  •  Comments

Oh boy. FIFA has gone and done it again. The UEFA playoffs have been seeded and something seems a little fishy... Chamo will give you some background to bring you up to date, and then off we go!

 

Chamo: Here's the story: Every set of European qualifiers for the World Cup comes down to a situation where the top team in each group gets an auto bid to the respective tournament, meanwhile the second place teams go into a playoff for the remaining spots. Now typically these playoffs are a random draw, giving every team an equal opportunity of playing each other. However, it seems FIFA has decided to seed the playoff spots this term, which was both unprecedented and unexpected. FIFA gave no particular reason for this sudden change, but it seems more than likely they fear the World Cup will suffer if top teams like France and Portugal do not make it to South Africa next summer.

Its disgraceful really, taking the opportunity from teams who have played their hearts out like Bosnia-Herezgovina and Ireland to have an equal opportunity for a fortuitous draw and forcing them into a situation where they must play France or Portugal. Anyone who has watched any significant qualifiers should know that France and Portugal have been abysmal, given their expected talent. I would much rather see teams consistantly performing at a high level, than teams that play below their level. England missed out on Euro 2008 because they didn't deserve to be there, so too should France and Portugal, or at least they should have the same probability as Ireland.

Biggy: Not sure how exactly one lands a fortuitous draw in a playoff group of the best second place teams. In fact, I think you could argue that for a couple of the teams on the unseeded side that they would have preferred playing one of the seeded teams. Count me in with the people that didn't exactly think Portugal and France are terribly convincing of late.

Regardless, I can't say any team has a clear edge with this "draw". Tell me where the weak spot is. Bosnia? Slovenia? Ireland? I'll pass thanks. Each of the bottom teams is a strong side and all of them are more organized and composed then Portugal or France of late. In fact, I'm slightly confused on which group was the seeded group and which one wasn't.

C: I completely agree that it is tough to tell who was seeded, given every respective squad's performance record of late, but my issue lies more in the fact that the possibility of Portugal and France being pitted against each other, thus knocking one of them out of the World Cup was zero. Do I think Ireland, Bosnia, Slovenia and Ukraine can win their matches? Absolutely, but I also think Slovenia will struggle to play against Russia (who does deserve to go on) and since they had no chance of potentially drawing Ukraine, Ireland or Bosnia the new system is broken.

Also, these smaller teams lack the depth of squads like Portugal, France and Russia, thus must rely solely on the fitness of their first team squads going into these matches. An Ireland squad without Robbie Keane is way more decremental than a France squad sans Henry. My issue lies in the fairness and logic of the decision, not in the potential for a favorable outcome. I truly hope Ireland and Bosnia smash France and Portugal respectively (especially Portugal, I hope Dzeko scores four).

B: I mean, why not have the best teams in the World Cup? Everyone wants to see guys like Ronaldo and Henry, and I think that seeding them like this allows for that opportunity. Each of these teams have a decent match up, certainly no one is a clear favorite, except maybe the Russians. Plus, first team fitness is always an issue, see Ronaldo,Portugal. Without him I don't think anyone thinks they are a favorite. I think the seeding system is just fine, half the top seeds are in disarray and no one can really think that they got that bad of a draw.

C: Henry is old and has won the cup before and I can only take so much of Ronaldo's pouty face and tears every time he loses, which he inevitably will. I would rather watch a well managed mediocre team than a poorly managed team of superstars any day of the week.Good managers make a world of difference, and France and Portugal have two of the most inept human beings at the forefront of their nation. Queiroz selected Ronaldo again despite his injury, this coupled with the fact he has consistantly proved he has little to no idea how to run a team full of primadonas would make for a poor showing in South Africa regardless.

A perfect example, lord knows you should agree, is the US in 2002. Mediocre squad, amazing results due to positive coaching influence and a team selection that didn't butt heads. Fast forward to the US team now, supposedly talented squad, poor results, mostly due to incredibly poor managerial decisions. I want the teams that are going to play their asses off in South Africa, not the ones that will bitch and moan about their performance the entire time. Underdog teams almost always play better than expected, due to heart, something Portugal and France lost long ago.

B: Certainly I think every team should get a fair shot. Is the draw the most fair way to ensure that? No chance. However I think that it might have worked better for teams like Ireland who would probably prefer to play someone like France versus a Bosnia or a Slovenia. Maybe that is just me.

Regardless, this is just another absolutely LUDICROUS decision from FIFA/UEFA. How this is fair to any team is beyond me, and thankfully the draw didn't work out that poorly for anyone. Russia is really the only clear cut team that stood out as someone who might deserve a seed, outside of them the seeds are a bunch of teams that squeezed through and if they lose I will laugh a lot. How this is justified is beyond me and if I was Slovenia I would be up in arms, having drawn Russia when they likely would not have otherwise (25% with seeding, 14% without it) and favoring particular teams just makes FIFA/UEFA look bad, again. Just like usual.

 

What do you think about UEFA's decision to seed the playoffs for the last four spots to South Africa? Let us know!


Comment Script
Post this page to: del.icio.us Yahoo! MyWeb Digg reddit Furl Blinklist Spurl

Comments

Unfair!
I haven't completely finished reading this post yet, but I was curious about the fairness of the seedings. Both of you are presenting good arguments on both sides of the fence so far. Here's a real telling point about the fairness of it all: according to Wiki the best second place teams are as follows (based solely on points and goal differential minus points garnered in matches against the sixth-placed team in each of the other groups are not included in this ranking):
Russia
Greece
Ukraine
France
Slovenia
Bosnia
Portugal
Ireland

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_FIFA_World_Cup_qualification

If we were to follow common sense, then France would be a seeded team, but Portugal would not. This would probably be one of the fairest ways to seed them, though group strength doesn't come into play. If we wanted to go American playoff seedings on them we'd be looking at the following matchups:
Russia - Ireland
Greece - Portugal
Ukraine - Bosnia
France - Slovenia

On another fairness note; FIFA apparently doesn't have it's seeding formula for the World Cup down yet, and won't until after the playoffs are concluded and we know all 32 nations that will be competing next summer. Talk about BS and protecting the "big" teams.
#1 - Nick - 11/13/2009 - 07:51
yeah nick they said they based it on FIFA world ranking as of the most recent one, which is super BS because it reflects past games much more then current performance and shafts teams like slovenia, who performed better then portugal.
#2 - Biggy - 11/13/2009 - 14:30
First of all, the playoffs were seeded in 05 as well, but the biggest issue I have with this post is the assumption that team USA is getting poor results and that it is because of bad managing. If you look at the results Arena wasn't any better then Bradley has been leading up to the World Cup in 02, the difference is that under Bradley USA made the Confederations Cup final while playing good soccer. Another thing you have to remember is USA still finished first in the hexagonal despite it being much stronger this time then last time. El Salvador and Honduras are clearly stronger than Guatemala and Panama, and the fact that USA was the only team in qualifying to get a result in Honduras is amazing. I really think the only game in which Bradley has managed poorly was the game at Costa Rica in which he tried out a 4-3-3 with little success. The contributions that Bradley has made have been impeccable and he has been paramount in creating a strong team mentality in which they never give up, something that clearly wasn't present in the last World Cup cycle.
#3 - Evan - 11/13/2009 - 20:12
Response
Evan, you are correct, it was used in 2006, but there was a statement from FIFA that they would not be used again, which they switched VERY late, and only after it had been determined that France, Portugal, and Russia did not automatically qualify.

As for the US. You obviously have not read this site very much, because you would know that I have no respect for Bob Bradley or his managerial "style". He is an awful coach who has little to no idea how to use the talent he has at his disposal. A 4-4-2 formation where your two best players get shoved out wide where they receive the least service is inexcusable.

As for the Confed Cup, how long can all the Bradley supporters ride that stroke of luck? All you have to do is look at the final to see why my statements hold weight. Poor substitutions, no faith that they could win the match in regular time, it was crap. Bradley should have been fired months ago, and I will claim it now, the US will not make it out of the first round of the WC, regardless of their group.
#4 - Chamo - 11/14/2009 - 19:21
Plus they didn't deserve a result in Honduras, they were AWFUL that entire match. In fact, I struggle to find a match in the last 7 that the US has played where I have been impressed by any aspect of their game.
#5 - Chamo - 11/14/2009 - 19:24
So what if they are shoved outside, some of the world's best players play on the outside for their national teams and club teams. Ronaldo, Ribery, messi are all clearly wingers and their coaches don't try to force them to do things that they shouldn't. It is clear that Donovan and Dempsey have been playing their best soccer on the outside and I disagree about Bradley. I was even impressed by the squad today against Slovakia. They held possession and created many chances without Donovan. They were clearly the better team on the field. As for his substitutions in the confed cup, who was he supposed to bring in? Michael Bradley was suspended, Casey was sadly the best forward option off of the bench, there was honestly no one to go to. Many may have liked to have seen Jose Torres make an appearance but he hadn't played in a long while leaving him a big risk. I have complete faith in Bradley and I think USA has a good shot to do well at the World Cup next year.
#6 - Evan - 11/14/2009 - 20:19
At some point you are going to have to recognize that the confed cup was not all luck chamo. still, certainly the us caught a break or two or 6 goals at the death to get through. the team did look quite different in the egypt game, whether that was bob or just no pressure is debateable. While both of you are right in your own ways (Evan on the spirit of the team and them looking better, Chamo on the fact that Bob is often making changes in another universe) the real issue for the US is now the injuries. Bob has coached well, he is not perfect or terrible, he still does do things that confuse me. However, the loss of Chuck Deezy and Gooch, who have easily been the two guys who have stood out in the past six months as the new core to a pretty respectable side are likely to both not be prepared for SA is devastating. Also, JFT and castillo wednesday with holden too one time Bobbbooo. Donovan and Demps best positions do not exist, really. they are just an enigma.
#7 - Biggy - 11/15/2009 - 06:14
Yes, Ronaldo, Messi, Ribery, all could be argued to be amongst the greatest in the world, but all of them play for teams where they receive service. Michael Bradley, Rico Clark, and Feilhaber are AWFUL at distribution (did you watch the second half of the Slovakia game!? ABYSMAL!) Hence why I will refuse to watch the US in SA unless Bob gets half a brain and starts Jermaine Jones and JFT in the middle.
#8 - Chamo - 11/15/2009 - 20:09
Redemption, Sort Of
At least one plucky, unseeded team upset one of the "big boys" in the UEFA playoffs, and Ireland almost pulled it off too. UEFA's got some 'splainin' to do. Though I'd rather have Russia go through, instead of Portugal or France, I'm elated that Slovenia was able to fulfill their Cinderella story.
#9 - Nick - 11/19/2009 - 08:28
Name
E-mail (Will not appear online)
Homepage
Title
Comment
To prevent automated Bots form spamming, please enter the text you see in the image below in the appropriate input box. Your comment will only be submitted if the strings match. Please ensure that your browser supports and accepts cookies, or your comment cannot be verified correctly.



This comment form is powered by GentleSource Comment Script. It can be included in PHP or HTML files and allows visitors to leave comments on the website.